0:00:09.1 Jack Broudy: Your host, Jack Broudy and welcome to live in at 45. Today, I'm with my very good and long-time friend, Matt Papish, and originally from Long in... And then we met in California, in San Diego area. And we've been best friends ever since, I guess it was... Nola, there's more before I went in, before I moved to...
0:00:31.2 Matt Papish: Of course, I usually there was some kind of a female involved...
0:00:34.4 Jack Broudy: Yes, there was, there was. Well, it's a long time ago. He is. You're right about that. I'm happy to be with you on the 45-degree living right there in Matthew. When I first met Matt, I'll just get into it really quickly, he was doing a blind date... He was doing the TV show blind date, that was his production. And that was really neat, and he had also done a lot of other things in Hollywood, but he sort of moved on from there, and now you're doing holograms... You like the king of Hollywood holograms.
0:01:17.2 Matt Papish: Yeah, well, I've always been thinking a little bit ahead of the curve, and I remember when I was producing television, when American Idol... What I was fascinating was they had... Not only did they have the revenue from the television show, but they had deals with mobile, and I had all these interesting deals, so I said there's a lot of different ways to slice this pie, and I started in a rate on that time, the internet was starting to take off and I saw lots of opportunity.
0:01:52.0 Jack Broudy: Well, I remember we went out to lunch one day. Is in Century City, I think this is a long time ago. Like 25 years ago, maybe I'm scared. I don't even know if you remember this, and we had lunch and we hung out a little bit. Is when you were in Century City and you were telling me that TV is dead. You were saying TV is gonna be history soon, I'm like, Keep at it here. You know what you're talking about? The internet, all the internet channels, they're gonna be internet channels, you wanna see specifically what you wanna watch sports all the time, music, whatever you want, it'll be there. And it was hard to believe. This was back in the... Believe it was the 80s, it had to be the 80s. If, when you were in Century City.
0:02:38.4 Matt Papish: A... Well, I knew television was gonna change for sure, the ratings were gonna be dead, and that is what occurred to my surprise, there was a bit of a golden age in scripted television after that, but just the whole thing changed. It's like the music business. When the Internet came in, this rewritten for modify, serious, all those things, they had a remaster.
0:03:08.3 Jack Broudy: Everyone went back on tour to make real money.
0:03:10.8 Matt Papish: That's right, that's right. Yeah, so what I found was I enjoyed the blending of what the internet brought and what traditional media brought, and there was a time when I started to represent some of the biggest web brands, to take them to television, like my space numbered. Then I ended up making a deal with classmates dot com, and I was able to produce 100 episodes of classmates, the television show, which was very interesting because I was not only making fees as a producer, but also... When people signed up for the service at 45 a pop. I made half of that too, so it was real convergence things going on, but I always wanted to be part of...
0:04:12.6 Jack Broudy: Well, you're definitely a cottage... I mean, like I said, I couldn't believe it at the Titan also. Then you work for Al or time, one of the big ones. And Samson, you worked for Samsung to right? Yes, yeah.
0:04:26.4 Matt Papish: I would say not to confuse your viewer, but I mean, viewers love... But I would say that the through line has always been sort of visual, whether it's technology, whether it's a hologram technology has always been just sort of like a visual piece to it. Yeah.
0:04:52.3 Jack Broudy: Did you ever get into the goggles, you know, the Google glasses or whatever, that would... Three dead or make it virtual reality.
0:05:01.0 Matt Papish: Yeah, so I had a startup and I brought in an old friend of mine who was just starting at Samsung, and I was right when they were bringing out the Gear VR... VR first VR glasses.
0:05:18.4 Jack Broudy: Yeah, I used a few of them, I think. I don't think they're cool.
0:05:22.5 Matt Papish: Yeah, and I'm a sucker for anything that's really new and emerging, so while I was in the classes for the first time, I was devising my new company and what I was going to do, and I got really into it, and Samsung actually absorbed the company I had at that time, and I came in full-time with them to work with not only VR, but a lot of their emerging technologies that were coming down the road, and my job which was really interesting was to look at all of that stuff and create business models for companies, so where it wasn't just experiment to check this out, how fun is it? I was like, This is how this can benefit you... Drive revenue or whatever it is. And that was really, really fascinating.
0:06:15.2 Jack Broudy: Yeah, I understand, I always remember you and I dabbled, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I was just dreaming it. But you and I would always dab and you say, Oh, you should do your system, we could do this whole thing. And I remember, didn't we talk about that a couple of times when you were with Samson putting on the head, the gear and then taking a lesson or something like that.
0:06:36.8 Matt Papish: Yeah, so it totally applies to this technology, I always look at it as it applies to sports, music, entertainment and business. So where I'm at right now of what happened with VR audience, is that even a Samsung that spent billions of dollars producing it, bringing it out retail, the whole thing, they had to shut that department down because it wasn't scaling to the extent that they needed it to okay.
0:07:13.7 Jack Broudy: Right. Well, you always saw it, it like the big trade show, I went to a few trade shows and someone would always have those VR glasses, so you did see them around, but no, they didn't make it really into the households, did they...
0:07:25.5 Matt Papish: They did now Oculus, which is Facebook, now is matte, stuck it, and they're respectfully moving product, but just like anything else, it was the form factor, that was the problem, it was having to put something on your face, you ladies having... And I don't need to be sexist, but messing Harrison, it didn't work, but it led the way for the next iteration, which will be augmented reality, wearables like these... Now, these are an ad mental reality, but these are... Oh, cool. So this is kind of a first generation. These are called N real glasses, and you can literally get a little bit of that VR experience, except you're not immersed, you can look in through the glasses, I can see my hands, and now you're interacting with the world.
0:08:33.6 Jack Broudy: Wow, so it's kind of like a hologram in itself.
0:08:37.2 Matt Papish: As it produces a hologram effect, that's... Hologram works really well as content for this, and that's kind of where now everything is absolutely moving, so you're not immersed, you're not isolated, but now you can interact with the world and it's gonna get better and better and better. I think it's gonna be very enhancing, you'll be able to put up your entire workspace, your computer work space, in your space and move it around, and my wife is gonna hate that she thinks I'm out there enough and aren't you listening? Aren't you this... And I had just said, No, I heard you.
0:09:28.7 Jack Broudy: I didn't, but that's incredible. So you really are gonna be able to be while you're in the world, you'll still be in your own world.
0:09:37.0 Matt Papish: Exactly, exactly, yeah. And when you think about what could be enhanced with that and talk about training or talk about... Let's go for the elevator repair man, he goes on a site, he put these on and now he's communicating with his back office and they see what he sees, and he's moving things and manipulating things around, so you can really map of just a whole bunch of things or you can be in the world and you could be walking down the block and you're absolutely seeing where the sales are or what restaurants are serving. And.
0:10:20.8 Jack Broudy: So basically, you've got your Amalie cops, you've got your camp, you're... Came on and everyone can see what's going on. And you've got your own life show going on basically The Truman Show. Right.
0:10:38.9 Matt Papish: So now what my company does now is going back to Samsung, one of the technologies that they've brought in was a very highly advanced image capture technology, so with these 16 high-fidelity cameras, we could map a human incredibly accurately, in other words, we can scan and they call it volumetric video because it captures the volume, the mass of a person, that is... Generates a tremendous amount of data, and that basically is your digital DNA. Now, what can you do with that data? Well, that data is what you could re-assemble into a hologram of a person with a stunning accuracy, because it is the person, it's just a high image of.
0:11:34.2 Jack Broudy: How many cameras do you have?
0:11:36.4 Matt Papish: Well, each studio has about 160 cameras, high small high fidelity cameras and lighting and software. Now, the thing that makes it really exciting is now that you have that data, you could move hands, body voice without the person having to be there. And that now creates lots of use cases, I like to say like if we take entertainment, I like to say that we can have... Tom Hanks could have his data digital, all this data captured, and now he could do... He could be hired for pick-up shops in a movie, he could do camera to do commercials without it having to be there all at the same time. And make three times the amount of money.
0:12:27.8 Jack Broudy: Can I really look at it? Yeah, that's... That's like the... What's called these fake...
0:12:35.1 Matt Papish: So those are called defaced fix, that's it. And that is just a very low res... Not capturing somebody, but really taking pictures of magazine articles or whatever it is, and having some machine learning, so that's a very low... A non-authorized...
0:12:57.6 Jack Broudy: So they get in trouble for that. But.
0:13:00.2 Matt Papish: If that looks good, you can imagine when you do it very high. So in that sense, we are capturing the masters of... I get it. Of.
0:13:12.1 Jack Broudy: Recognizable man. Now, if you wanted to see a tennis player and action, would you have to take photos of me use your camera and do it in action, but you just get his body... How would you do that?
0:13:27.3 Matt Papish: So here we go again. And meet me, yellowish.
0:13:31.6 Jack Broudy: It, I'm picking it. This is the big company right? Here you think, or brothers was something... Wait, do you see the shaky brothers here? We're gonna do it. Okay, Atoll me, here it is. I'm now gonna be convincing you again, 20-20... Well, a me by an eight-track back, I remember we were gonna put notes on their knees and their tips have notes on that word, this is perfect for you because... And by the way, I'm very familiar with Jack's a board system, which is probably called something else down my door, still in Brody tennis system. That's it. And I work with your daughters, that was fun for a summer... Last summer, very familiar.
0:14:15.3 Matt Papish: And so what we would do simply as you would come in, we would probably, in two hours, we would completely scan you and we can scan you on your eight board doing our thing, and then what we do in the industry is we capture you in a T-pose, different poses and apos, and what that does is that gives us all of the data to manipulate...
0:14:44.8 Jack Broudy: I understand that it plays off of what you've done with the 100 or so cameras, it plays off of that angle or whatever...
0:14:51.2 Matt Papish: That's right, that's right. So then now you have your... And now, let me tell you something, you could now teach, show up anywhere, certainly through classes like this, so if you're... If they're students and they're wearing the glasses, there is Jack on the court, they can walk around you, they can do anything that they want is they can size you up, size you down, rotate you, and you can teach them a lesson. And we could do everything, but high five, we would just go through each other like a ghost. Yeah, so does that use... And by the way, you can be in 50 cities doing the same thing all at the same time, I see.
0:15:43.9 Jack Broudy: Oh my God, it's gonna change the world of conventions even... Yeah, it's gonna change the world of conventions, you can have any guest speaker, maybe they don't wanna take the trip to Las Vegas, but they can just be there. Absolutely, they can introduce cons that can introduce concert act... Absolutely.
0:16:05.5 Matt Papish: Politicians or imagine keynote speakers, they could be in 100 cities, not to mention the artificial intelligence that can actually translate their voice in different languages, so it all kind of starts from having a very high resolution clean master and just like If Arrowsmith went into the studio and they cut an album, everything is going to be spawned off of that, like... So what my company does is not only do we oversee to capture, but then we process it and we move it into our large file repository where we charge people for storage because this is a lot of data. Yes, I know I do video all day long and I have so much, I have to keep buying more and more storage all in each person could be about like 50 day. And then the third part is, we allow third parties to access that, of course, all protected and they could actually... They can build what they want from the underlying data in the cloud on the platform, so if I'm an ad agency and I wanna use Tom Hanks, I could just go on to the platform, it has his approval for certain things, and they can now access it and it might be all automated to...
0:17:41.2 Matt Papish: Knossos might just go. So anybody who wants to be just down bridges here, purchase your subscription, the Tom as for five seconds, Steins 100%, 10%. Now, think about this, if you think about all the top actors now, the Mary Street and the Tomas, whatever, now when they go, when they pass, that brand pretty much dies with them, right, then they can keep acting for 00 years, think about the heirs of them, think about that for the family. It not only creates an incredible additional revenue stream for them while they're living, but then for their families and their heirs when they pass.
0:18:32.0 Jack Broudy: It's gonna be horrible though, if they get gigs that these new up and comers can't get hot, so you lost to age.
0:18:41.0 Matt Papish: Well, yeah, and the other way to think that's true, and the other way to think about it is... And you know how many times movie studios do sequels of movies, right? Oh, yeah. And so it's just they're gonna be creating more products because Mario strep is around or re-Witherspoon, whatever, Legally Blonde 10. But I will create more work for people...
0:19:10.4 Jack Broudy: Well, that's incredible. Let me ask you one or two things that pop to my head, which is, I'm imagining these classes are gonna be for the Pop masses, they're gonna be affordable someday and all that stuff. Correct, yeah. The other question is, Does it do anything for the internet for your iPhone, your eye watch or your devices, will this affect that, and obviously I will, but I'm not quite sure how you... How would that affect just your...
0:19:43.6 Matt Papish: Absolutely. This is now the only real AR, augmented reality viewing device, and you can do it right now, beautifully. The thing is this, the glasses are expected to replace the iPhone... Is that right? The iPhones and pads and all. That'll be his absolute. A lot of time right now, Tim Cook at Apple, he's completely dedicating the next 10 years to actually replace the iPhone because iPhone sales of level no office even going down a little bit, it's not more... Not like it was. Sure, a hell difference is these just need to have the processing of a phone, and that if you notice with these, you need to tether it to a phone 'cause that has the processing power, and eventually that'll be Bluetooth. Eventually, Halbert, it'll all be in. You'd have to let too... Anything. Wow, so give that about five, six, five, six, 10 years, but that's kind of where it's moving, so... Yeah, so you can definitely look at AR and this... And the good news about what we do is what call interoperable, so our holograms work on any platform anywhere, so we're not as involved in the device of the exhibition.
0:21:26.3 Jack Broudy: Is, would it be better than on a device then just a video, just 'cause you can see different angles? No. When on a device, no, I understand why the glasses, I understand that, but I'm like, why she's looking at now, why would this type of hoist... Just more of a 3D effect.
0:21:51.2 Matt Papish: Well, again, I can take this and I can walk around it, and you're seeing the front, back and sides above NEMSIS, it up-size it down is... And it's standing, you're on your deck, and it's standing on your deck right next to you with shadows, so it seems like it's right there. It's incredible.
0:22:12.9 Jack Broudy: Oh my God. So obviously, you've seen some of this in action... Oh.
0:22:17.2 Matt Papish: Anybody can see it. If you just go to... So remember, there's a difference between what we do, which is the real person and then a computer graphics version of it, so there's a lot of computer graphics versions of this which are pretty good, if you go to Google and you go animal holograms, boom, you'll be able to access it right there.
0:22:41.8 Jack Broudy: Is this similar to the minibus or is that a completely different thing?
0:22:45.3 Matt Papish: So let's talk about the meta-verse for a second. And I am very aware of that because my two daughters were doing something about a year, three a year ago, which was these very immersive games like star stable or roadblocks or things like that, where they have a character and the avatar and is moving around as them and that was the beginnings of the meta... And I have over here, I have how Mark Zuckerberg defines the Manvers and embodied internet, where you are in the experience, not just looking at it. So the meta-verse is almost like a dual universe, it is going to... Especially when you have my PolyGram types where it's really you... Not just.
0:23:42.1 Jack Broudy: I understand. I'm starting to finally... You explain it, I got it.
0:23:47.0 Matt Papish: So if you are inside of this world, you are pretty much doing what you do in the physical world, in the digital world, it's almost more efficient, you're buying clothes, you can buy your groceries, which will physically be brought to your house, but you can shop, you can do all this kind of stuff. Is in this digital world, which is extremely real, you can watch movies, you can spend your time in there... That's the meta verse. Oh my God, an alternate universe. I have another definition is also defined as the moment in time when our digital life is worth more to us than our physical life. So again, if you have a perfect digital replication of yourself and you're in this perfect world, and if you like what you're doing, I can go play with The Grateful Dead, I can be on stage with the dad, is that what you're telling me? I can put balls with Roger better, I could just get a nice... Really? Absolutely, rather than... Yeah, so riser-feeler is a good example. I would wanna have Roger Federer on my platform and Roblox or whatever platform licensed his usage for me.
0:25:15.4 Matt Papish: I understand.
0:25:16.8 Jack Broudy: I understand checkout, I'm not better or maybe, but you know, come on.
0:25:25.3 Matt Papish: You know what, if you practice a little bit more, you could have been actually a... With a grateful Dan. Actually, you probably know more cores than me do.
0:25:37.1 Jack Broudy: I guess Stillwater sure what this is, honestly, Matt, this is really... This is something else I boom mind, you know, I'm gonna have to... After we finish our a little show here, I'm gonna have to hit you up for 'cause my mind's going a mile an hour, man...
0:25:58.3 Matt Papish: No, it's heavy stuff. And it's the kind of thing I wanna do for the rest of my life. It's brilliant.
0:26:06.6 Jack Broudy: It really is brilliant. And I'm loving the idea. And so you're going after people like Roger better or Brad Pitt, you're actively... I'm guessing that's what you're doing, so it's not just means this is way past that, this is... Their persona is there.
0:26:31.3 Matt Papish: Yeah, this is literally... Their digital DNA, it literally is. So it's like they're verified digital human replication is verified as the only authorized one they gonna have... Are the people coming after you? Or is it too secret, are people actually coming up to you and say, How much would have caused me to have my hologram Noel want... The market is growing quickly, and obviously when there's a market, when people are making money with it, that's when it really turns on, but at this point, absolutely. And I'm working with very closely with Hollywood's biggest performer union sag after... When I was at Samsung, I recognized that this was so accurate and this looked so good, it was so manipulative that it needed to have the proper governance and rules around it, or it would never move. Of course, of Kian see that and you can't put so and so in a certain situation and stuff like that, and also how do you pay them? How do you compensate it? Right. I went... So I've been working with sag after for a couple of years now, together collaborating on this, I've been speaking at some of the... I've been key noting some of their things, and so the notion there is they have 160000 members, of course, a handful of those are major stars in the world, and everyone has to have a sad card, so through them, I will be accessing the A-list in the entertainment industry.
0:28:20.8 Jack Broudy: So of course, I have to go there, I have to go there on there, I have to ask you, is your company just the technical part, are you the marketing part as well, like would you do deals with people... See, my first thought is, Okay, I'll give you 50% of my digital impression and I'm out there a little bit and I'm getting out there more, I'm gonna actually start working with sports and TV, I haven't told you that, which is a great outfit out of Miami and I've got money, it's a big sports evening and... Yeah, zero would. Do you do things like that because that's where my mind goes? Directly.
0:29:02.8 Matt Papish: To... So absolutely, so the first line of business is we wanna be the dumb utility, right? I wanna be the capture, the storage, the access point, and maybe blockchain piece, but we do have a deal with a marketing company to be opportunistic and to market these things and to work with our customers and clients to get out there and make those kinds of deals for sure, because when you think about it, there's not gonna be a lot of places to go to gain access to some of the big stars, so they'll be coming to us, so... Yes, and that's a great idea. That's a really good deal. Yeah.
0:29:55.4 Jack Broudy: I have a site now, I don't know if you've been doing probably maybe have you been doing it?
0:30:00.9 Matt Papish: Now, I have.
0:30:02.5 Jack Broudy: Members joining pretty much daily and PROS as well, and so that's one source, but this is a whole... This is a whole different level right here, I mean, that would be... You could literally give private lessons, you could go there, but everyone puts their glasses on and you could give private lessons... Absolutely.
0:30:26.3 Matt Papish: I'm... And I'm telling you now the connection, the emotional connection that you have with a well-done hologram is... You'd be surprised. You feel good. You want to talk to them. Your endorphins are there. It has every bit the emotional capital that you would if it's like almost a regular person, when you started adding some artificial intelligence, and then what that means is you're able... As a hologram, you were able to respond to questions in a very meaningful... Not automated way. It's incredible.
0:31:10.7 Jack Broudy: Amy, I'm wrong, but about 15 years ago, or 10 years ago, I think I saw, and I'm sure it wasn't his... God, it is today. I was at a concert, I think it was Prince. He could be past... That was a two-pack. That's right. And it looked okay, but pretty... I was like, Oh, that's really trivially looks at it.
0:31:33.8 Matt Papish: For the Tupac, and these are interesting examples. Is cone right now what? Houston has a hologram concert in Vegas, those are all one-offs where they kind of build it for that show around it, and also the exhibition of it is not so clean. I was a parlor trick. They have a screen. It's a little dark.
0:31:58.2 Jack Broudy: Yes, I remember it looked like sort of smoke coming through a filter or something like that...
0:32:03.2 Matt Papish: Right, so it's still not quite there yet. But again, if you capture it the way we do, you will have the resource to build something like that, not just the one-time one type thing, but it is leading to... Yes, to hologram events and performances.
0:32:24.9 Jack Broudy: Well, man, this honest to God, and you make it so simple, which is great, 'cause I have people trying to explain other things and I don't understand what they're talking about, and it's almost like they're trying to talk over your head, but this is a difficult situation, and you made it so simple, I even get it. And in fact, I get it so much, I'm gonna have my people call your people, which means I'll be calling you in about 15 minutes, channel's fascinating to me, and I think... I think it's the way to go. I really do, especially for him, not just tennis, but I'm in education.
0:33:01.7 Matt Papish: It's incredible, and that's high praise coming from you because you definitely would and you have... Would let me know when I'm be asking you. Oh, oh yeah.
0:33:11.9 Jack Broudy: Okay, the piano, you know the piano, when this guy was in his one's... Oh man, they get buying that pinned... Start singing and playing. Singing or playing. Great, and then he'd start with this area, so much feeling he had when there were girls around, some life feeling it was incredible, 'cause the iwata well anymore... Like when I used to play my guitar and I close my eyes, you know, I feel it, I.
0:33:46.8 Matt Papish: Look at someone... If they were young enough and you can you use Pam John song and say you wrote it for them as.
0:33:55.8 Jack Broudy: A... Rather wrote a lot of songs on, man, thank you so much for the time. You can really... I know you're a busy man, I really appreciate the time, and it's so great to catch up to you and you look great, you really do. You look great. I stay seated, but you look great, and I will get in touch or... 'cause I'm really interested in this whole thing. And this is like... He always amaze whether it was a blind date on the thing you wrote, you brown some great things for Hollywood. And I'm like, Well, that's amazing, but this... This is different than amazing, 'cause it's not just making your money, this is sort of changing history a little bit, you know what I mean? This is changing history of that, this is...
0:34:44.7 Matt Papish: And that's always been a motivator of mine is to... I cannot be the middle, I can't be... I can't be that guy. I have to do something that changes changes perception of the world a little bit, so this has all the tenants of that, so I'm excited. And thank you for having me, Jackson.
0:35:04.8 Jack Broudy: Thank you so much, I really appreciate it. And maybe some day we'll do it again, but hopefully before that, we sit at about this because I am really fascinated and thanks for explaining. 'cause now I get it, and it's not just a bunch of you Holly would ease.
0:35:23.9 Matt Papish: That's titrate. Thank you for that.
0:35:25.3 Jack Broudy: It's really amazing. Thank you very much.
0:35:27.5 Matt Papish: You're welcome back by by Jack chilko.